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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 08/23/2008 : 3:23:56 PM
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How does every team in our division now have solid affiliation(s) and Dayton cannot land one?
Cincinnati.....Montreal/Nashville
Johnstown......Boston/Columbus
Wheeling.......Pittsburgh/Philadelphia
Elmira.........Ottawa
Trenton........New Jersey (owned)
Reading........Toronto/Los Angeles (sort of)
Dayton.........
While I have no idea how much $$$ flows back and forth there has to be some. Without our affiliated players (NHL & AHL) we are sunk.
Not to slam Dayton (Its nice to have away games within 50 miles) but how do they expect to survive with no affiliations and inflow of cash or talent? GM Moraine is shutting down, which i'm sure kills the fan base. Is the writing on the wall? |
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Dr. Feelgood
(The Next Level!)
126 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2008 : 11:39:34 PM
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| i dont see how they can keep surviving going down this path |
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Jericho
(The Next Level!)
336 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 01:28:00 AM
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ummm - you do understand you have to pay for affiliated players right? You don't get them for fracking free. Counts as $525 against your cap per player and you cut the parent club a check for whatever is agreed upon.
There's a plan in place, and I'm quite happy with it. How's about you worry about pleasing your stockholders and we'll worry about Manuel ok? |
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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 12:32:32 PM
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I understand affiliated players are not free; $525 against the cap is a small price to pay for top flight (ECHL level) talent. Your best player demanded (and got) a trade. The point I am trying to make is WHO is providing that talent and cash flow in Dayton ? Are the coaches scouting and subscribe to The Hockey News? Were they at the Cyclones tryout camp? Did they have their own camp ?
Honestly I hope Dayton survives as its a good rivalry and allows teams to play without incurring overnight type expenses. I have known Bill Kirby (in arena announcer) since his traffic watch days on WHIO and he's a good guy and a huge supporter of Bummers Hockey. Whatever the plan is I hope it works and allows us to continue to play past this upcoming season. |
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Jericho
(The Next Level!)
336 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 12:44:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tjpavlik
I understand affiliated players are not free; $525 against the cap is a small price to pay for top flight (ECHL level) talent. Your best player demanded (and got) a trade. The point I am trying to make is WHO is providing that talent and cash flow in Dayton ? Are the coaches scouting and subscribe to The Hockey News? Were they at the Cyclones tryout camp? Did they have their own camp ?
Honestly I hope Dayton survives as its a good rivalry and allows teams to play without incurring overnight type expenses. I have known Bill Kirby (in arena announcer) since his traffic watch days on WHIO and he's a good guy and a huge supporter of Bummers Hockey. Whatever the plan is I hope it works and allows us to continue to play past this upcoming season.
We already have most of our roster signed. The team is waiting to make the announcement for maximum media coverage. You should hear something soon.
There is money in this town. The Dragons show that people will spend money. There is a plan in place and I have a feeling it does not include the Nutter Center. As soon as the team gets that monkey off of their back everything else will fall in to place. Why do you think we are playing 6 games at Hobart this year? |
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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 2:29:06 PM
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I lived in Springboro for a few years; yes there is $$ in the Dayton area but it seemed so much revolved around GM. I worked for an aviation company and we made our money unloading, fueling and flying for GM. The loss of Moraine is more than just GM pulling out, its everyone who worked for the support companies as well.
Dropping the Nut house would be a great start. It seems too big (just as USBA is for the Cyclones except for a few games) I've never been to Hobart but heard its tiny. A 3000 sellout is better than 3000 sitting in a 3/4 empty arena. When the team owns the arena they certainly have a leg up.
Is anything going on at Hera? That would be old school ! |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 2:05:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tjpavlik
How does every team in our division now have solid affiliation(s) and Dayton cannot land one?
Cincinnati.....Montreal/Nashville
Johnstown......Boston/Columbus
Wheeling.......Pittsburgh/Philadelphia
Elmira.........Ottawa
Trenton........New Jersey (owned)
Reading........Toronto/Los Angeles (sort of)
Dayton.........
While I have no idea how much $$$ flows back and forth there has to be some. Without our affiliated players (NHL & AHL) we are sunk.
Not to slam Dayton (Its nice to have away games within 50 miles) but how do they expect to survive with no affiliations and inflow of cash or talent? GM Moraine is shutting down, which i'm sure kills the fan base. Is the writing on the wall?
The Bummers lost their affiliation with Columbus last season at the 11th Hour. There had to be major financial issues for Columbus to take such a drastic action. Those issues still remain and are the most likely reason for no affiliation once again for Dayton. As such, the chances of them being competitive on the ice are slim to none. With the salary cap, the Chicago Wolves (AHL) model of a top tier, free agent loaded team is not possible.
The current ownership of the Bummers is now in its 5th season. They appear to be a rudderless ship to me. They have no cohesive marketing or on-ice strategic game plans. They had the one season where they were 2 games over .500 and fluked into the finals. Other than that they have been miserable on the ice.
And, I know I sound like a broken record about their inflated attendance, but this team is averaging no more than 2000 paid per game. They have lost a lot of money (I'd guess in the $750,000+ per season range) under their current ownership. Their marketing efforts can be charitably described as feeble for last season. The economy of Dayton--particularily for the well paid blue collar workers who are the the bread and butter for minor league franchises--is depressed.
The survival of this franchise appears to be soley dependent upon the willingness of the owner's wealthy father to continue to write checks for his son's toy. That could last forever or it may not. The Dayton hockey market has not proved economically viable for well over a decade now. Since moving from Hara to Nutter, the Bummer's are on their 4th ownership group. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see that things are not good for hockey in Dayton.
For what it's worth, I am a partial STH for the Bummers. I don't want to see them fail. But, unless something drastically changes (moving the team to Hara/adopting a ticket pricing strategy similar to the Cyclone's model/etc.), there seems to be no apparent reason for optimism regarding the future of the Bummers. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Edited by - hrc666 on 08/26/2008 2:17:37 PM |
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Dr. Feelgood
(The Next Level!)
126 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 12:21:20 AM
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| didn't dayton get new ownership during the end of the season or playoffs? to some group from the detroit area? and the ownership said they planned to keep the team in dayton? |
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Jericho
(The Next Level!)
336 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 04:11:06 AM
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| Manuel Papista bought Don McAdams stake in the team. |
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screamin
(The Next Level!)
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 1:34:17 PM
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| Our company ownes a store in Kettering and it's gone to heck in the past year. Yes, we deal with housing and we all know it's down but the remodeling end of the buisness has been up. Not in Dayton. We've laid off 2 full time employees and who knows when or who's next. It's not good in Dayton folks. I have 3 co-workers who will tell you the same. |
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Cyclonesdiehard
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 2:38:18 PM
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| Dayton is always hit hard when the economy turns sour. It has been that way for years. My Grandpa lost 3-4 factory jobs during the 60's and 70's. |
http://cyclonesopinionpage.blogspot.com/ |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 5:42:45 PM
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SEATING LEVEL PRICE
Platinum $30.00.........Center Ice Gold $ 25.00
Gold $ 20.00...........Center Ice Silver $ 17.00
Silver $ 15.00
These are their prices from the website.Maybe Dayton should think about what we
did and get some "minor league" prices for "minor league" hockey! I know they give
the military discounts but lowering prices may have saved our franchise.What is
better-an empty $20 seat or a full $10 seat? The whole ECHL needs to roll back prices
and give the fans the needed break.I am bringing this up only to point out we don't
want to lose Dayton from the league because for one it's an easy drive for fans and
team and second if Dayton drops out the fans may come down here looking for their
hockey fix( okay Jericho,I couldn't resist the jab  )!
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Jericho
(The Next Level!)
336 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 10:43:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bags
SEATING LEVEL PRICE
Platinum $30.00.........Center Ice Gold $ 25.00
Gold $ 20.00...........Center Ice Silver $ 17.00
Silver $ 15.00
These are their prices from the website.Maybe Dayton should think about what we
did and get some "minor league" prices for "minor league" hockey! I know they give
the military discounts but lowering prices may have saved our franchise.What is
better-an empty $20 seat or a full $10 seat? The whole ECHL needs to roll back prices
and give the fans the needed break.I am bringing this up only to point out we don't
want to lose Dayton from the league because for one it's an easy drive for fans and
team and second if Dayton drops out the fans may come down here looking for their
hockey fix( okay Jericho,I couldn't resist the jab )!
Pshhh - Come down there? Not bloody likely. I already go up to Fort Wayne for about 10 games a season. I'd just go to more FW games.
I'm not really sure why I need to reasure you people of anything, but a plan is in place. As soon as we get the monkey that is the NC off of our back things will start looking up. In the meantime there are some measures in place.
The thing with saying "oh, you should charge 10 bucks a ticket" is there is a totaly different situation going on in Cincinnati than there is in most of the rest of the league. Your owners own the arena.
$1 of all of our tickets go to paying for the white elephant that is our ice surface. $2 goes to parking fees (and I have no idea who gets that money, I'd assume it's taken by the NC) from what I've heard the NC won't put parking attendants out in the lot anymore. If we charged $10 for tickets it'd be $7 toward the team. Take the ticketmaster charge (yes teams do have to pay a certain ammount to ticketmaster for the "privelage") and you are hovering closer to $6 profit per game.
Notice the Hobart games last year were $10, why? No ticketmaster up there, parking is run by the arena and the ice surface was installed over 50 years ago (updated since then, but no ice fee @ Hobart.)
Your tickets are $10 for one reason. They can't make them any cheaper without looking like laughingstocks. Heck, if they knew every person would show up for every game they'd probably just give away the entire upper bowl and make money off of the beer and food purchases. Why do you think they didn't raise the prices for the finals? The player's cut of each ticket rises the further in to the playoffs a team gets, most teams raise prices to defray those costs, but you guys didn't. Why? Because the arena knew they'd make the money back in concessions.
It's a smart move. I'm not ragging on your owners AT ALL for that. They've changed their business model to adapt for the marketplace. People in Cincinnati didn't want to pay the prices you were charging to go downtown to watch hockey, so they adapted their business model.
The problem is that adaptation is not possible in places like Dayton, Wheeling, Johnstown etc with the current arena contracts that these teams have. That situation could become very different in Dayton in the next 9-12 months, but it's all speculation until something is announced. |
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