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smashmouth
(Rookie)
17 Posts |
 Posted - 12/30/2008 : 4:15:43 PM
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I wonder what the problem may be on this team??????
1. Mitch Woods quits
2. Irish Baker retires
3. Makway suspended then traded
4. Houle quits
5. Hamilton or Milw. are not sending any players down here - maybe no one wants to come here...
Not sure if I missed any player movements other than call ups, but I do sense a problem, either with coaching or management......
This team is loaded with individuals not team players - 4th. place and no playoffs this year... unless we get some team players from somewhere.. |
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poff34
(The Next Level!)
USA
250 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 4:21:38 PM
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| Gotta get rid of ocho stinco first. He is the biggest problem we have and starts all the problems during the games. We could have won 2 straight games before christmas at home and that idiot had to go and take stupid slashing penalties that gave up the leads and eventually led to us losing the games. |
Poff34
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cloneinator
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
597 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 6:11:10 PM
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| Ah, it's just the nature of the beast of minor league hockey. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. With Chuck and Dean at the helm, I will never believe it is anything of a personal nature. Montreal/Hamilton have been hammered with injuries so they are calling up those assigned at the lower levels. I sincerely believe things will get better, but I can't say if the team will make the playoffs. |
...And on the eighth day, GOD created the Cyclones! |
Edited by - cloneinator on 12/30/2008 6:11:40 PM |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 6:36:13 PM
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1. mitch woods quits...not a big loss. mitch had potential but was undersized for role as an agitator. he can take his 3pts in 12 games back to canada with him...he avg'd almost 4 mins per game in penaties. he only had 3 fighting majors in 12 games so most of those were minor penalties. there is only 1 active player on this team avg'ing over 3mins right now and that is JJ (more on him in a bit)...but yeah, mitch woods is not a loss.
2. BIB retires...this HAS hurt. billy was one of the few guys that new chucks systems. he was also very versatile; he could play up front or on the blue line effectively. he was also plain and simply a hard working energy guy. players like billy are hard to replace. i understand why he moved on and i don't blame him. i wish him all the best...
3. makway quits...not a loss, in fact we probably benifitted from it. i'm not sure why he quit but we were apparently able to coax him back so we could trade him to vegas to complete the houle trade...at the time UPGRADE cyclones
4. houle quits...this came at a terrible time. from 3 golaies to 0 goalies in a 3 day period. can't say that i blame him. he's been around awhile and in the current echl if you aren't affiliated it's tough to get a call up, especially for goalies, and when you've been around as long as marty has at some point it sets in that it's time to hang them up because the call up isn't in the picture anymore. the timing couldn't have been worse for us, luckily, chuck has been able to work magic in the past and i'm sure he can again. thanks for bailing us out when you did marty...good luck with college...if you decide it's not for you, give chuck a call...
5. hamilton and milwaukee not assigning players...the call ups have hurt us for sure, but it is not ham/mil job to send people here...we feed them. they send people when they have them to send. right now beau is the only healthy scratch hamilton has at forward, MIL isn't much differentm that's why santorelli is getting bounced back and forth. when guys get healthy at the nhl and ahl levels, players get bumped back down...its just they way it works at this level of hockey. sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it doesn't. last year hamilton was short at the blueline and we lost conrad martin, but they were heavy up front so we got to play with desharnais, beauregard, russell, and aubin for the majority of the season, this year it's the opposite and we get st. denis, but with the injuries that mtl and hamilton have suffered we lose the forwards. there are some issues with our non-affiliated call-ups; joey ryan is out pending a heart procedure (don't worry according to chuck at the coach's show it sounds a lot more serious than it is), kyle rank is out with a knee injury and matt macdonald is playing pretty well (i wish he'd do that when he's here), so there is no telling when those guys will be back.
"This team is loaded with individuals not team players"...chuck touched on this at the coach's show. he essentially said that sometimes the guys try a little too hard indivually, they try for an extra pass that might not be there, etc and they don't let the support some through, as was the case in dayton friday night. when the guys play within themselves and let the systems work like they did on saturday and sunday, it's a different story.
onto JJ...since the 06-07 season people have been asking for an enforcer...well now we have one and many are complaining about it. JJ is a great locker room guy and his teammates love him. granted, he has taken some penalties that have probably cost us games, but i can point out penalties that others have taken that have cost us games...if you want me to i will, i'm getting laid off for a bit and will have plenty of time to go through the score sheets...JJ can play the game, he just needs to be a little more aware of time, score and his reputation. 2 of the penalties that he has taken, that negated power plays, were something that if virtually any other player did would not have been called, but with JJ's reputation he needs to mind his P's and Q's. if you are really against JJ being here and you think he can't play why don't YOU write chuck a letter asking him to forfeit the last 2 games because JJ had assists and YOU don't want him team and therefore anything he does is crap. JJ is a big reason we won the last 2 games. he's on what is probably the top line with van and killer. he's creating a lot of space for those 2 guys, much like chico did for JM and DD last season. in 7 games with us he has 4 assists, in the past 2 games, the ill advised penalties have been missing and if that trend continues he will be a huge asset to this team....
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
Edited by - elvis77 on 12/31/2008 12:50:35 AM |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 6:49:26 PM
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| as far as playoffs go, 4th place gets us in and since we've played better on the road thus far a road schedule could be in our favor. i think 4th is obtainable. reading and trenton have shown me nothing to make me thing that they'll be in the running, that leaves elmira. while we haven't played lights out consisntently, we have played well enough to be over .500 with a cobbled together roster. we've already added a d-man from fresno, aquired a forward from stockton and from what was said at the coach's show monday i wouldn't be surprised to see a few more fresno players come this way. if there is one thing i know for sure is that chuck is good at getting the best out of what he's got. as long as we win more than we lose we'll be there at the end of the year. i'm not saying will win another cup, but once the playoffs start, it's a whole new season..... |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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Caitskee
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 12:41:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
1. mitch woods quits...not a big loss. mitch had potential but was undersized for role as an agitator. he can take his 3pts in 12 games back to canada with him...he avg'd almost 4 mins per game in penaties. he only had 5 fighting majors in 12 games so most of those were minor penalties. there is only 1 active player on this team avg'ing over 3mins right now and that is JJ (more on him in a bit)...but yeah, mitch woods is not a loss.
2. BIB retires...this HAS hurt. billy was one of the few guys that new chucks systems. he was also very versatile; he could play up front or on the blue line effectively. he was also plain and simply a hard working energy guy. players like billy are hard to replace. i understand why he moved on and i don't blame him. i wish him all the best...
3. makway quits...not a loss, in fact we probably benifitted from it. i'm not sure why he quit but we were apparently able to coax him back so we could trade him to vegas to complete the houle trade...at the time UPGRADE cyclones
4. houle quits...this came at a terrible time. from 3 golaies to 0 goalies in a 3 day period. can't say that i blame him. he's been around awhile and in the current echl if you aren't affiliated it's tough to get a call up, especially for goalies, and when you've been around as long as marty has at some point it sets in that it's time to hang them up because the call up isn't in the picture anymore. the timing couldn't have been worse for us, luckily, chuck has been able to work magic in the past and i'm sure he can again. thanks for bailing us out when you did marty...good luck with college...if you decide it's not for you, give chuck a call...
5. hamilton and milwaukee not assigning players...the call ups have hurt us for sure, but it is not ham/mil job to send people here...we feed them. they send people when they have them to send. right now beau is the only healthy scratch hamilton has at forward, MIL isn't much differentm that's why santorelli is getting bounced back and forth. when guys get healthy at the nhl and ahl levels, players get bumped back down...its just they way it works at this level of hockey. sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it doesn't. last year hamilton was short at the blueline and we lost conrad martin, but they were heavy up front so we got to play with desharnais, beauregard, russell, and aubin for the majority of the season, this year it's the opposite and we get st. denis, but with the injuries that mtl and hamilton have suffered we lose the forwards. there are some issues with our non-affiliated call-ups; joey ryan is out pending a heart procedure (don't worry according to chuck at the coach's show it sounds a lot more serious than it is), kyle rank is out with a knee injury and matt macdonald is playing pretty well (i wish he'd do that when he's here), so there is no telling when those guys will be back.
"This team is loaded with individuals not team players"...chuck touched on this at the coach's show. he essentially said that sometimes the guys try a little too hard indivually, they try for an extra pass that might not be there, etc and they don't let the support some through, as was the case in dayton friday night. when the guys play within themselves and let the systems work like they did on saturday and sunday, it's a different story.
onto JJ...since the 06-07 season people have been asking for an enforcer...well now we have one and many are complaining about it. JJ is a great locker room guy and his teammates love him. granted, he has taken some penalties that have probably cost us games, but i can point out penalties that others have taken that have cost us games...if you want me to i will, i'm getting laid off for a bit and will have plenty of time to go through the score sheets...JJ can play the game, he just needs to be a little more aware of time, score and his reputation. 2 of the penalties that he has taken, that negated power plays, were something that if virtually any other player did would not have been called, but with JJ's reputation he needs to mind his P's and Q's. if you are really against JJ being here and you think he can't play why don't YOU write chuck a letter asking him to forfeit the last 2 games because JJ had assists and YOU don't want him team and therefore anything he does is crap. JJ is a big reason we won the last 2 games. he's on what is probably the top line with van and killer. he's creating a lot of space for those 2 guys, much like chico did for JM and DD last season. in 7 games with us he has 4 assists, in the past 2 games, the ill advised penalties have been missing and if that trend continues he will be a huge asset to this team....
can't argue much here... glad to see someone on this board isn't throwing around nonsense. i would like to add that defensemen seem to suck with us and work out fine in the ahl. cough bryan schmidt :) |
~IN CHUCK WE TRUST~ |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 03:47:42 AM
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Brian Schmidt was outstanding in the Conference Finals and Finals. Once he got over his "Bobby Orr" complex, he was a force on the ice.
Woods was a bad recruit. He didn't have the physical ability to be an enforcer in the ECHL. His role as an agitator-something at which he could have probably been effective-was severely compromised by his lack of ice time. At the end of the day, his coming and going was no big deal. He wasn't here long enough to make a difference either good or bad.
Irish Baker was a gritty performer, the consumate team player. I understand that he had some injuries and that he felt it was time to move on. He won a Championship. Not bad for a guy who probably didn't expect to even play pro hockey. He's a loss in terms of character, but certainly not a big loss from a talent perspective.
I thought Makway was fine. Who knows what happened which caused him to quit? He ended up being our part of the bargain for Houle, so he served a good purpose.
Houle's sudden retirement is just part of the game. He may be a head case. He may not be. The timing is just very odd. Perhaps when the bus passed Philadelphia (where he played for the AHL Phantams and 1 game in the NHL for the Flyers), the reality of his situation hit him. He's 23, unaffiliated, making $437.33 per week and facing a 600 mile all night bus trip to the hockey outpost of Cincinnati OH. His career path wasn't going in the right direction, to say the least. After appearing in the NHL at the age of 21 and being an AHL regular, perhaps the 'charms' of the low level minors weren't enough to keep him in the game.
Sean Perkins leaving is a commonplace happening in the ECHL. A player can make thousand$ per week in Europe and, especially with a guy like Perkins who had zero chance of ever making the show, the lure of the money and chance to experience life overseas was probably a good opportunity for him.
This Cyclone team is simply not very talented. It doesn't have many "A" players. Last season we had Desharnais, Daoust, Desjardins, Schmidt, Russell, Latendresse, MacDonald and Deitsch-all of whom are in the AHL now. Of the current crop, only McElroy, Kilpatrick and Martin come close to matching the ability of those who are now in the AHL. The rest wouldn't have even made last year's roster. Except for Eghoetz (of course) and the injured Syroczynski.
We have a run-of-the-mill ECHL team now. Our affiliates have drained us of their good players and have provided us with some very average players. Weber didn't do a very good job of recruiting this year. That's just a fact. I'll give him a pass (How big of me!!!) given the wonderful quality of his first two teams. Why his recruiting was subpar this year is subject to discussion. Was he convinced that he'd get a shot as an AHL head coach and was lax in his reruiting efforts? Perhaps. Was he not given the go ahead by management to sign ANY veteran free agents? Perhaps.
The good news is that Weber is highly ambitious and is certainly not going to throw the towel in and accept a mediocre team. He wants to coach or GM at the NHL level. Sub.500 seasons in the ECHL ain't gonna make that happen. Players will be available from Europe and perhaps Van Guilder, Gordon,MacKenzie, Cohen and Kilpatrick can step up their games a notch or two with additional games under their belt. If that happens and Beauregard and Latendresse are returned, then the signing of a few key players later in the season could possibly make this team a viable playoff contender. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Edited by - hrc666 on 12/31/2008 03:53:24 AM |
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Caitskee
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 10:10:45 AM
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| schmidt is actually playing for kassel huskies of DEL not in the AHL |
~IN CHUCK WE TRUST~ |
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Randy
(The Next Level!)
USA
432 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 11:38:35 AM
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| Toomey is gone now too... |
Cyclones Fan, Win or Lose
Bengals Fan - Never! |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 11:55:13 AM
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a large problem with the recruiting was the kelly cup run. chuck, as he should have been, was coaching his team, while the wheelings, j-towns, and daytons had already started their recruiting. it happens at this level of hockey. vegas is suffering as well. the only reason dayton made it to the playoffs last year after their run to the finals was the division took 5 teams. the recruiting time chuck and dean had was cut short by a month compared to the rest of the division. recruiting is also made harder by the strength of our affiliations. when quality players look at how stacked we were from the affiliates they have second thoughts about where they fit it...these players often sign with teams were they fit in higher up the depth chart. unfortunately, that's just what happens...
i wouldn't expect help from the affiliates anytime soon. especially hamilton. as i said, beau is their only healthy scratch at forward so he's not coming back anytime soon, not to mention latty is playing well, so even when aubin is back from his injury there is no guarantee he comes back. i asked chuck about the possibility of aubin coming down for a rehab assignment and he was doubtful; the entire mtl/ham organization has a thing about players being primarily upwardly mobile. so if a player starts in the ahl, they are reluctant to assign him to the echl...it happened once or twice last year but i wouldn't hold your breath. on the MIL front, werner is the only guy that started here that is now up there. he's playing well, so i wouldn't expect him back. santorelli is back and forth and as a forward that makes it hard to see what his potential is. i thought he had solid puck skills, decent speed and footwork but wasn't here long enough to develop any chemistry.
chuck will be one of the 1st people to tell you that this team is not where it needs to be but he'll also remind you that you can't win 50+ games every year. right know we've got a solid team, the biggest problem is the inconsistency. i'm not about to say these guys are bad because i can still remember the 03-04 team which was absolutely terrible. we are winning more than we are losing and you can't complain about that. chuck is well traveled coach. he knows a lot of people in a lot of places and he's doing everything he can to get this puzzle put together.
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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Susan
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
986 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 12:47:37 PM
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| Thanks Elvis for the insight. I appreciate the information and your thoughts. |
Hockey is life. All the rest is just small stuff.
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 1:09:14 PM
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This season has been a horrible mess.First,we start out on top of the world as champions,
but play only one home game in the first 6 games.Then it's 4 straight and then wait 13
days for the next one. Later we have 7 in 11 days with THREE STRAIGHT against the same
team. Now we are in another 16 day drought of home games. Fans are down because no flow
of games leaves the press to really forget us. Add to this a team of misfits because no
quality players are safe from the AHL buzzards constantly around.Now when we do get a
player,he's sending resume tapes out to everyone in hopes of getting out of here. Maybe
the coach should have an open tryout and demand a $2000 deposit before they sign.If they
leave,we keep the money.If they are cut by us or play the season,they get it back.At this
point I say kill the two affiliate set-up and go with only one. If we have some young
guns strickly under contract to us,we at least can field a team and fans can learn the
team.I NEED A DRINK  . |
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cyclonehole
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 2:22:05 PM
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| Yeah, and least people forget, through all that we are maintaining a winning record and are neck to neck with Elmira for a playoff spot (and really, none of the division is in a safe position, save maybe Wheeling). |
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cloneinator
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
597 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 3:54:20 PM
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| I would personally think if you signed players obligated only to the Cyclones and would not give them the opportunity to move up if they deserved it, it would become a two-edged sword. Why play hard if your not even going to be given an opportunity if you deserve it? I have never had much of a chance to speak to Coach Weber at any extent, but it seems he feels strongly about letting guys have the opportunity if they earn it, which is one reason they play so hard for him. I have mixed feelings about having two affiliates for these exact reasons, but lets face it, no one was complaining last year when it worked so well to the teams advantage. |
...And on the eighth day, GOD created the Cyclones! |
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CincinnatiFan
(The Next Level!)
USA
288 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 4:24:15 PM
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You have to face the facts of our situation.
The ECHL exists to develop people for higher level leagues. There will be an occasional lifetime ECHL level player who continues to play for love of the game and can help your team but in most cases your goal is a team full of players desperate to prove that they deserve to be promoted out of here. With the occasional exception, if a player is content to stay here you probably don't want them here.
If a player realizes he doesn't have the skill and / or heart to fight for promotion then it is best for everyone involved that he move on. Staying to finish up his contract is just going to make everyone miserable. |
Get Clones instead of Clunkers.
Cincinnati Cyclones
League Champs 2008 and 2010.
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ClonesFanNKY
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 6:41:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by poff34
Gotta get rid of ocho stinco first. He is the biggest problem we have and starts all the problems during the games. We could have won 2 straight games before christmas at home and that idiot had to go and take stupid slashing penalties that gave up the leads and eventually led to us losing the games.
When Was JJ in net? When did he become a goalie?
Did i miss a game or 2?It was the "TEAM" that lost the game
not just JJ. If i remeber didn't the other team pull their
goalie to go up 6 on 4 and they let a goal go in to tie it? |
Bring the Pain |
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