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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2009 : 01:48:07 AM
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Cyclone attendance tidbit:
If the Cyclones draw no fans over the next six home games, they will have an average of 2,660 for their first 10 home games this season.
After 10 home games last year, the team drew an average of 2,568.
I had projected a Cyclone average attendance of 2,500 this season because of a lack of weekend dates, the economy and the ticket price increase from $10 to $12.
Being wrong is awesome every once in a while |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 05:37:17 AM
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TEAM......... TOTAL GAMES AVERAGE
Fort Wayne. 34,863... 4... 8,715
Quad City.. 19,542... 4... 4,885
Bloomington 16,317... 6... 2,719
Muskegon ... 18,113... 7... 2,587
Flint ......... 11,325 ... 7... 1,617
Port Huron . 10,500... 7... 1,500
Dayton ...... 8,525... 6... 1,420
TOTALS: 119,185 41 2,906
Here is the current IHL stats. Why isn't Fort Wayne beating dowm doors to get
an AHL franchise? I would think because the team is making money and fans are
content with the lower cost league they are in. I like that formula also and hope
we stay a "big fish" in the ECHL over a "small fish" in the AHL. |
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Sinbinman
(Rookie)
45 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 09:24:45 AM
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| I agree with bags, right now hockey is still affordable for the most part. I would like to see discounted prices for kids tickets....mainly because I have 3 and being a one income family thats another $36.00 hit at the gate. My problem I know. But as far as the hockey is concerned I like the level of play. Some of the fun, and frustration for that matter, is having new guys on the team every year but when a diamond comes through like a David Deharnias it makes it fun to go to games. This year that player looks to be Matt Pierce. Me personally I hope they stay in the ECHL. |
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Primis
(Finally Got A Star!)
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 09:43:05 AM
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quote:
Why isn't Fort Wayne beating dowm doors to get
an AHL franchise? I would think because the team is making money and fans are content with the lower cost league they are in. I like that formula also and hope we stay a "big fish" in the ECHL over a "small fish" in the AHL.
I don't want to go really in-depth on it, but as a Kzoo fan very familiar with the IHL and Fort Wayne's situation, the only way it can be profitable for the Fort Wayne owners is if they have a winner. They have a sweet deal where if they draw over 5,000 fans for a game they don't then pay any rent for the building, and they make a tidy profit form that -- enough that they can even financially prop up Flint and Dayton. Furthermore, Fort Wayne really burned some bridges when it left the original IHL in terms of ticking people off (some of them player union people). Many of those ticked off are still in power in various leagues.
Finally, Fort Wayne fans have "bought in" to the current model and 100% believe with all their hearts that affiliated hockey is horrible hockey, and that their team are some sort of "trailblazers" for minor hockey. They 100% believe the IHL is superior to the ECHL in every way, and know that if affiliated there's a chance they couldn't win a Cup every single season. You have to remember, back in the 1980's IHL Fort Wayne was not drawing fans at all and the team wasn't having a lot of success on-ice either -- so much so that the then-owner moved them to Albany and made them the ill-fated Choppers. The two are directly related. Also, Fort Wayne blames affiliated hockey in general for the transgressions of the old IHL and their dumb ex-owner that moved them to Albany.
The only way Fort Wayne will ever do anything different is the current owners would have to step aside and a new group come in. It will take the IHL dying regardless of Fort Wayne's financial propping up to finally force their hand. To be honest, when Kalamazoo left the IHL this past offseason is sent Komet fans into a HUGE panic because they know how fragile their little empire is.
As to the AHL... Oklahoma City is getting an AHL team probably as soon as next season. I'm hearing increased talk Indianapolis is on the block to get one as well in the next few years, and your Cincy Cyclones have come up as well on occasions. There are so many struggling AHL markets right now, and Anaheim still doesn't have an AHL affiliate. The Amerks are probably finished in Rochester, given that they're drawing maybe 1/3 of what they used to now that they are not affiliated with the Sabres. And if southern Ontario were to get another NHL team it would kill off both the Marlies and Hamilton. Something has to give. My money is on you guys being amongst the first in line.
You guys are a very large ECHL market -- Kalamazoo only has a population of about 350,000 I think for its "metro area" (Kzoo and Portage basically). Cincy has a pop. of something like 2,300,000 for its metro area. That's tough to ignore. It's why I have to remind myself, as a Kzoo fan, when I see my team near the bottom of avg. league attendance that it's not really comparable to many of the large markets at the top, and the 3,700 we're averaging right now is actually fairly good (especially considering the number of hockey teams we can go and watch int he area on any given night).
You guys have earned your shot at AAA hockey again. I personally would rather watch ECHL than AHL (but that just might be because Griffin games at Van Andel are always boring and I'm liking K-Wings ECHL games and pace so far), but I don't think AHL hockey is bad at all. I'm just curious what you guys think, it's your team and you've seen AAA hockey before just like we have in Kalamazoo. What if you could get an AHL team and land an affiliation with Columbus, would that help any? |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 10:17:09 AM
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| i found this little tidbit awhile back on the IHL and fort wayne. a google search for the offices of the komets and one for the IHL league offices yielded the same result. they are both in the exact same place. i looked it up because i had heard rumors that the ownership of the komets also owned the trademarks to the moniker "IHL" and "Turner Cup" I wasn't able to verify this but sharing an office and seeing names of high ranking komet front office people also being high ranking ihl executives does make you go "hmmmmm." at the very least it makes me think that fort wayne likes their situation. they make money and are basically in control of the league. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 12:03:16 PM
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Great Post Primis.
I enjoy battling with the orange kool aide drinkers on intotheboards.net. It's almost as if a spell has been cast on most of them regarding the "non affiliated" hockey.
The Fort Wayne owners would be foolish to change their game plan. They are probably the most profitable team in minor league hockey. As Primis pointed out, the Komets need to be a highly competitive team to appeal to their fan base. Moving to any other league (ECHL, CHL or AHL) could easily upset the ability of the Komets to be dominant. The owners will only change leagues if it becomes necessary. That necessity could be as early as next season given the sorry state of the IHL.
Personally I'd prefer the AHL, though the league does produce a seemingly untoward number of "snoozer" games. Still, I am quite content with the Cyclones level of play. Under Coach Weber, we've had highly competitive teams. Should the Cyclones become a run-of-the-mill ECHL franchise, they would become less enjoyable to watch. But, that not withstanding, unless an AHL team would be NHL-owned, I'd just as soon leave things as they are. I am of the thinking that the Cincinnati market just won't generate enough revenue to support an AHL team over the long run. If there was a hockey-loving "philanthropist" in Cincinnati who would subsidize AHL hockey and willingly absorb fairly large losses, then that would be outstanding. However, I think that individual would have emerged a few years ago when a group tried to revitalize AHL hockey here. That effort failed and I think that pretty much spelled the end of the AHL here.
But, given the outwardly poor economic states of a huge amount of AHL teams, the recent gate success of the Cyclones could put Cincinnati back on the AHL radar. That scenario would almost have to include Nederlander (owner of US Bank Arena and the Cyclones). The notion of Cincinnati being a two team market has been laid to rest. At least I would hope so. LOL. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Primis
(Finally Got A Star!)
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 12:59:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hrc666
I enjoy battling with the orange kool aide drinkers on intotheboards.net. It's almost as if a spell has been cast on most of them regarding the "non affiliated" hockey.
To be fair, it's not all Komet fans, just a very vocal contingent. Most of us Kalamazoo fans remain over on the finishyourcheck.com forums, which used to primarily be IHL and USHL forums but have added an ECHL forum home for us Kzoo fans to stay around in. And there's a definite split on there -- the truly longtime Komet fans aren't drinking as much of the orange Kool-Aid and many of them would welcome affiliated hockey back with open arms. Some of them even openly question what the Frankes are doing and the damage it's causing. Some even admitted openly that they're jealous that Kalamazoo walked away and gets to be in the ECHL with Cincy and Toledo again. Those voices are drowned out entirely on the ITB forums though.
Komet fans carry grudges a long time though, and I think what happened in the old IHL got passed on to a younger generation that never actually saw it go down, and they just assume that's the way it works in affiliated or AA hockey and that's their excuse.
Changing topics a bit: Doesn't your owner own your arena as well? If so, I'd assume that'd kep costs down considerably if you moved to the AHL... |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 12:18:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Primis
Changing topics a bit: Doesn't your owner own your arena as well? If so, I'd assume that'd kep costs down considerably if you moved to the AHL...
Nederlander owns both the team and the arena. However, that's a mixed bag in terms of benefit.
One would think that one benefit would be that the hockey team would receive the best dates. LOL. The Cyclones host 18 Fri/Sat/Sun games and 18 Mon-Thu. games-one of the worst mixes in the league.
Another point that isn't discussed is that the cost of opening the arena for an event is significant. My estimate is that it costs between $10 and $12k to open up USBA for an event. Most teams in the ECHL and AHL pay significantly less than that in per game rent.
There are benefits as well-high percentage of concessions in USBA's case-but overall it's a mixed bag and probably not as adventageous as it may appear to be on the surface. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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cloneinator
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
597 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 2:15:20 PM
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I don't know. A higher league = higher costs which = higher ticket costs for better quality hockey. I'm just not convinced in the long run an AHL team would survive.
The present Cyclones seem to be doing well right where they are, so why risk it. It short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
...And on the eighth day, GOD created the Cyclones! |
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Buckeye011
(The Next Level!)
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 10:55:04 AM
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Nobody has mentioned the idea that, hey, Coach Web has been rumored (or in good position) to be an AHL coach each of the past 2-3 seasons. If Cincy would become an AHL team, that would KEEP CWeb in town, or you'd think if the new ownership would want him, which would make sense.
Not only that, but the only thing that killed hockey in the 90's in this town was the loser that though having 2 teams in a non-hockey town would work. Having JUST an AHL team WOULD work, as the Cincy Mighty - eh...cant believe Im even saying the name...Ducks, werent doing all that bad, and because people like me were loyal to my Clones, I wouldnt go to a Ducks game, just because of the perdicament that was brought on by having a 2nd team in this town.
Im cool with staying in the ECHL, cause like Ft. Wayne in the IHL, we have become every-year winners, in some regard, and I like the winning ways, however, I'd also like to have more stability in rosters, among other things. Price hikes obviously would hurt, but would be expected. Idk. It could work. |
Loyal Cyclones fan since 1993 |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 7:12:32 PM
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| Over the last eight games, the Cyclones are averaging just 2,652 fans per game. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 8:42:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
Over the last eight games, the Cyclones are averaging just 2,652 fans per game.
True. In games 5 thru 12 of last season the Cyclones averaged 2407. This year's attendance is 10% higher over the same period. When one considers the 20% price increase ($10 TO $12), TICKET REVENUES ARE UP OVER 32% from last season.
Not shabby at all given the economy. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 9:03:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hrc666
True. In games 5 thru 12 of last season the Cyclones averaged 2407. This year's attendance is 10% higher over the same period. When one considers the 20% price increase ($10 TO $12), TICKET REVENUES ARE UP OVER 32% from last season.
Not shabby at all given the economy.
Obviously you forgot that 10,000 fans paid just $7 November 6 -- $5 off the regular price, plus another 9,000 paid a similiar price and less for the education day game making ticket revenues not the 32% up from last season that you claim. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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cyclonehole
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 9:44:30 PM
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| The only game that really surprised me with a poor turnout was the Reds Fest night ... I thought there would at least be a better turnout for that. The night before was of course worse, but I didn't really expect the teddy bear toss alone to bring out a decent crowd. Better promotion, as always, would have been nice. Seems like all I heard that weekend was still promoting the wobbler. Last night's crowd was about what I expected unless WEBN had sold a lot of group sales. After all, how much interest does Wildman himself actually bring in to the casual fan. Today's sub-2000 game wasn't really a surprise since this is only about the 3rd Sunday game since the team has returned, and an hour before faceoff was the Bengals playing one of the better teams in the league. |
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JTest
(The Next Level!)
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 10:39:29 PM
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| Thanks for the postitive update Donnie Douchebag! You go back to post that is a month old for what? Your subtle but obvious negativity towards anything that has to do with the Cyclones is getting very stale. Go post where people actually give a damn what you have to say... |
Section 128 - row o |
Edited by - JTest on 12/13/2009 10:43:16 PM |
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