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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2010 : 10:57:58 PM
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And thats your choice. I'm fine with that.
Benson argues pretty much EVERY call against him, but the simple fact is that 95% of the time he's guilty.
The refs get it wrong sometime. No doubt about that, but there is no big conspiracy against the Cyclones. Really. There isn't.
And if you ask the Charlotte Homers, they'll tell you that the ref is picking on Reynolds and Benson is a punk.
Just because I'm not a Homer doesn't mean I don't love the game and love the home team. And I don't care if Homers want to be Homers, but I don't accept fingers pointed at me and being told to go root for the other team just because I refuse to be a mindless Homer with you. Thats just idiotic.
And by the way, if the Cyclones played the same style as Charlotte the same guys that are here calling Charlotte punks and goons would think that style of play is great and just plain hard nosed playoff hockey.
Thats what Homers do. Right?
Just sayin'.
PS - Reynolds IS a punk by the way.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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Clones
(Rookie)
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 12:37:42 AM
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"And by the way, if the Cyclones played the same style as Charlotte the same guys that are here calling Charlotte punks and goons would think that style of play is great and just plain hard nosed playoff hockey.
Thats what Homers do. Right? "
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would NOT like it or condone it if our guys were a bunch of cheapshot punks like the Chokers obviously are.... BECAUSE I 'know' hockey and where the line of sportsmanship is. Everyone where I sit agrees they're playin' dirty, not outclassin' us.
So I guess this 'Homer' won't just accept dirty BS hockey if their club were to do it.
The Cyclones happen to be the primo club in the ECHL regardless of other circumstances and I'm glad Weber runs a classy club, though I must admit I wish he'd give the guys a green light to knock their jaws off after putting up with all they do behind the refs back all game. Still, I'd be disappointed to have a punk team like Charlotte or Johnstown, etc.
And when I ran a few of your comments about this series by some people, you being a Clone 'fan' and all, the people I asked were perplexed why you'd say the refs are doin good and the other team is better and such when you're a season-ticket auction-jersey buyin' 'fan'.
Just sayin'. |
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PressureDrop
(Rookie)
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 07:01:05 AM
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| You forgot to mention "know it all" |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 10:32:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ClonesAnd when I ran a few of your comments about this series by some people, you being a Clone 'fan' and all, the people I asked were perplexed why you'd say the refs are doin good and the other team is better and such when you're a season-ticket auction-jersey buyin' 'fan'.
Just sayin'.
I never said the refs are doing "good." I said they are being typical refs. They get some, they miss some. This is a HARD game for one ref to call, stuff WILL get missed.
I've seen multiple infractions by Charlotte get missed, I've also seen infractions by the good guys get missed. But Homers like to ignore that latter category.
You can try, but you'll have a damned hard time convincing me that there is some sort of intention ref conspiracy against the Cyclones in this day of EVERYTHING being videotaped and reviewed. If the refs WERE doing that, it'd just be dumb and could cost them their jobs. Unless of course you think the LEAGUE is behind a ref conspiracy against the Cyclones... Uhhhh... Yeah.
Sure. Have fun with that.
Tell you what, you guys go ahead and keep blindly spilling your venom, and while you're at it make sure you run off every fan that doesn't agree with you.
Thats an EXCELLENT plan!!!!
PS - I'm a looooong time Avalanche fan. I was at the first game they played in Denver after the move. But I could still watch the San Jose series, even the games they won, and recognize that they were getting their asses kicked. I HATED it, but it was reality.
I suppose I could just scream that the refs sucked at the TV. Apparently that helps.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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PressureDrop
(Rookie)
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 10:56:07 AM
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| There you go again, trying to clarify your opinion.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and just because they do not agree with you does not mean they spill venom at you.I do not remember reading anywhere about a ref conspiracy.I myself think that you are wrapped a little too tight so loosen up will ya. |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 11:42:26 AM
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I was one of many about the calls by the refs. A little different
take is how many times does it seem in hockey the refs are MORE
critical to the home team. My problem with games 4 & 5 were penalties
by Charlotte not being called, but the same actions drawing one for
us. One thing Benson does that tends to get him in trouble is when
someone hits him, he needs to be more under control on the retaliation.
I've seen many times he locks on to a player, skates completely across
the ice and hits him near the ref. The other team's "goon" at least
waits till the player comes in his area making it look legit.
All I ask is call a fair game both ways and "letting them play" does
not mean allowing potential injury hits to not be called |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 11:55:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PressureDrop
There you go again, trying to clarify your opinion.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and just because they do not agree with you does not mean they spill venom at you.I do not remember reading anywhere about a ref conspiracy.I myself think that you are wrapped a little too tight so loosen up will ya.
There are multiple posts from the past week about the refs calling it one sided against the 'clones, and in this thread alone I've been told to go root for Charlotte and called a know it all.
But maybe you chose to skip over that part, just like homers skip over when the home team is actually guilty of a penalty. <shrug>
Look, all I'm saying is that BOTH teams are guilty of extracurricular stuff, usually behind the play (and ref's back). If you haven't seen any sucker punches from Benson or slashes from DelMonte or "Elbowz" McKenzie in action you aren't paying attention. The difference in this series is that Charlotte has excelled at drawing retaliation penalties. Which, by the way, Morehouse is GREAT at doing.
The only difference, in my opinion, is that TJ Reynolds is a punk. Its not WHAT he is doing (which is being a pest and drawing retaliation penalties, just like Morehouse does), but HOW he is doing it. Reynolds is the same as Andrew Lord (IMO) in that they are both big guys that shy away from other big guys but start **** with sub-200 pounders all day long.
I HATE that.
An old junior coach of mine called that "being a coward." And there is no place for cowards in hockey.
So... Yeah... Benson does his share of nasty stuff and often gets caught, but where he gets full marks is that he is typically actively hunting down the BIGGEST guy on the ice to face wash, not the smallest. Morehouse just doesn't seem to care.
At any rate, a penalty is a penalty. All of this "picking on the little guy" stuff doesn't play a part in that. But that latter part is why I want to see Benson whip Reynold's ass before this series is over.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 1:05:11 PM
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Catch 22:
A series of good posts. Thanks. Nice to see someone who understands what the game is about and how it is played. One can root for the Clones and still analyze the team and the game. I think you are a strong fan with a good ability to analyze. Seems some on here think that if a person's analysis is critical of the team, then they aren't a fan. Not true. Means they are hockey fans and not blind homers.
You and I have played the game and understand what roles different type of players play on a team, what the different overall team systems involve, and what a ref is trying to do during a game. The Cyclones are a good team that relies greatly on their system based on positional play. Charlotte is a good team that takes a different approach and relies on a close checking physical game. One system is not better than the other. In the long run the winning team team will be that which executes its system the best.
Only other team in our division that plays like Charlotte is Toledo. A lot of our fans are not use to seeing a close checking physical game and think that blown calls and cheap shots are the result meaning if we lose it because of the refs or the goons. Keep up the good posts--all the way to the Cup I hope. |
Edited by - dbc on 04/27/2010 1:11:47 PM |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 3:31:24 PM
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Since starting up CycWords I've been keeping much of my opinions over there, but since I've been having computer issues at home and haven't really updated over there, I'm going to weigh in on the boards...
I'm going to be one of the disliked and go ahead and agree with some have already said, Charlotte is outplaying the Clones at just about every facet. The reason is simple, they have bigger, faster players, who skill wise are equal to, if not better than ours. As some have said, we just don't match up well...and WE DON'T, at least not at the individual level. However, we DO have Charlotte beat in two categories, coaching and goaltending. Chuck is a master at getting the most out of what he has and getting the TEAM to play above the potential of the individuals. Last season, Wheeling had the better players and probably should have won that series, but the game plan Chuck put together worked, shutting down Wheeling's transition game and making it more of a zone possession game. This series is very similar. The Cyclones can not skate with the Checkers for a full 60 minutes. Early in the series the game plan was play D and take advantage of opportunities to keep it close and then turn it on in the last 30 minutes. It worked well in games 1 and 3, but not so well in game 4. In game 5 it seemed like we played with a high tempo early, backed off a bit in the 2nd and then picked it back up in the 3rd. Chuck, knows how to get the most out of his guys and I'm not sure if the same can be said of Wilkerson from what I've observed.
As far as goaltending goes, Munce has put up decent numbers over his career, but it's usually been with very solid teams in front of him. He makes some good saves, but as someone else hinted to, if he was seeing the amount of rubber that Smith was seeing, the series would likely be over.
On officiating, I'm not saying our guys our saints, or that I expect the ref to make every call. I read somewhere that in a hockey game there is some sort of interference happening every 30 seconds or so on average. I don't think we would like watching a game with that many whistles. That being said, there are things that a referee shouldn't miss, like things on or near the puck. Also, I think the logic of "it's the playoffs, let them play" is crap to a certain extent. The rules are the rules and it's a joke when they get altered in the playoffs. When a player finishes a check with his hands high in the other players face (almost every Charlotte hit) it's a roughing penalty and it should be called. It was called that way in the regular season and should be called now. |
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Clones
(Rookie)
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 4:21:09 PM
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For the record, missed calls drive me NUTS but I DO NOT blame the outcome on them. The Cyclones have proven for a few years now that you can still execute and win with poor officiating game in and game out, so how could I blame the refs or imagine some 'conspiracy' (good one haha). I suspect the ECHL doesn't want repeat champs for marketing reasons, but there's no way they could pull a conspiracy off with the mediocre refs having to execute it. LOL!
Go ahead and see it how you choose, that's fine and good... just glad the Cyclones are up 3-2 on a team that's 'better'. I'm sure Reading is rooting for Charlotte, too. :) |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 5:34:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
Since starting up CycWords I've been keeping much of my opinions over there, but since I've been having computer issues at home and haven't really updated over there, I'm going to weigh in on the boards...
I'm going to be one of the disliked and go ahead and agree with some have already said, Charlotte is outplaying the Clones at just about every facet. The reason is simple, they have bigger, faster players, who skill wise are equal to, if not better than ours. As some have said, we just don't match up well...and WE DON'T, at least not at the individual level. However, we DO have Charlotte beat in two categories, coaching and goaltending. Chuck is a master at getting the most out of what he has and getting the TEAM to play above the potential of the individuals. Last season, Wheeling had the better players and probably should have won that series, but the game plan Chuck put together worked, shutting down Wheeling's transition game and making it more of a zone possession game. This series is very similar. The Cyclones can not skate with the Checkers for a full 60 minutes. Early in the series the game plan was play D and take advantage of opportunities to keep it close and then turn it on in the last 30 minutes. It worked well in games 1 and 3, but not so well in game 4. In game 5 it seemed like we played with a high tempo early, backed off a bit in the 2nd and then picked it back up in the 3rd. Chuck, knows how to get the most out of his guys and I'm not sure if the same can be said of Wilkerson from what I've observed.
As far as goaltending goes, Munce has put up decent numbers over his career, but it's usually been with very solid teams in front of him. He makes some good saves, but as someone else hinted to, if he was seeing the amount of rubber that Smith was seeing, the series would likely be over.
On officiating, I'm not saying our guys our saints, or that I expect the ref to make every call. I read somewhere that in a hockey game there is some sort of interference happening every 30 seconds or so on average. I don't think we would like watching a game with that many whistles. That being said, there are things that a referee shouldn't miss, like things on or near the puck. Also, I think the logic of "it's the playoffs, let them play" is crap to a certain extent. The rules are the rules and it's a joke when they get altered in the playoffs. When a player finishes a check with his hands high in the other players face (almost every Charlotte hit) it's a roughing penalty and it should be called. It was called that way in the regular season and should be called now.
GREAT POST!
Dead on, and pretty much what I've been trying to say. Smith is carrying the Cyclones right now in much the same way Halak has given the Canadiens life (and a shot to knock off #1). As I said before, you can get outplayed and still win, great goaltending and coaching go a long way towards that.
As for the refs, always remember that on top of only having 1 of them per game, they are also reffing in AA and they are AA refs. It can get frustrating sometimes, but just like when a player makes a simple mistake or misses and easy shot I try to remind myself that I'm NOT watching the NHL.
I've seen some seriously poor reffed games in the past couple of seasons, but I can't honestly say I've seen one team singled out over any other. Usually if there is a bad/missed call against your team you don't have to wait long to see one the other way.
As for "let 'em play," I'm for it up until the point where it starts to border on intent to injure. Then, as a ref, you have to take control in order to keep the game safe.
And interference in hockey is like holding in football. Ref could call it every 30 seconds if he wanted to. Thankfully, they don't.
VanGuilder will hopefully play tonight as I think having that bullet in the gun will help ALOT. Cashman will hopefully help the power play, but I think he'll struggle with Charlotte's forecheck as much as everyone else has been.
But my wish for the day is for Reynolds to actually drop gloves with Benson instead of poking at guys like Ehgoetz and Lacroix. Ain't likely to happen, but I want it to.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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cycfan
(The Next Level!)
243 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 5:13:12 PM
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I'll disagree with one thing Catch22 had to say. I don't agree with "let em play" when it comes to obvious infractions that affect scoring chances or plain old blatant penalties. It's one thing to ignore a call when it's a shot at the legs as the play heads up ice, it's entirely something else when a forward cuts to the net with a step on the defenseman and gets a stick blade around his stomach in an attempt to slow him up until help arrives.
To a certain extent I disagree with the notion of the ref not pulling out his whistle every thirty seconds for interference too. If the ref calls a penalty on every one of those calls for the first twenty minutes, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't see it anymore for the rest of the game. Players play to what they're allowed to get away with...if the ref controls the game and calls it tightly, the players will adjust their play.
I want to see the hockey team that plays the best game win, not the one that is better at cheating and smarter about when they cheat.
That being said, Charlotte is clearly outplaying us up and down the ice. Case in point, watch their breakout and then watch ours. They move the puck up ice effortlessly and attack our zone under control. We usually have to have two or three attempts to clear our zone, and then cough up the puck in the neutral zone half the time once we get it there. We're in this series because we have a great coach, stellar goaltending, and our guys don't give up. We are outworking them a lot of the time, but don't have any illusions that we're a more talented team. |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 9:22:18 PM
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Great playoff series.
Smith was AWESOME, and the 'clones are moving on thanks mostly to him.
As for the "let 'em play" philosophy, I simply don't want that much of the game in the ref's hands. As long as its called relatively evenly and its safe for the players I'm happy.
There is no "right" answer here. Its opinion and philosophy.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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