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CSpotRun
(Rookie)
39 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2011 : 11:20:05 PM
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Kept hearing rumors about a Cyclones team in the AHL in the works but shrugged them off until I heard Wild Man mention it on the air the other day.
Apparently, the Cyclones are looking to "move" to the AHL and continue their affilaition with the Panthers. Anyone else hear anything about this ?
Not sure if this topic has already been discussed. Sorry if it has. |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2011 : 11:26:34 PM
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Dumb move.
If they can keep ticket prices below $15 and keep winning... Sure.
But that won't happen and it'll result in us not having a team again in 3 to 4 years.
This IS NOT a hockey town. I've said it 1000 times.
IT IS NOT!
On a given night half of the people in the arena are there because the tickets aren't much more than a movie / the beer is cheap / hotdogs, pizza, BBQ is $1 / Kids eat free.
They aren't there because they love hockey.
What's the average ticket price in the AHL? I know it's more than $13, which many people here have complained about already.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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CSpotRun
(Rookie)
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 12:21:37 AM
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| Whether it is a good or bad idea is a subject for another time. I'm just interested in knowing if anyone else has heard anything about this ? |
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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 08:46:31 AM
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I haven't heard the rumor at all. Currently there are no AHL franchises available (although everything's for sale!). Rochester is dropping their affiliation with Florida after this year but not their franchise (which they've had for 50+ years). Florida with probably run a dual affiliation with someone else (AHL) for the next few years.
I'd enjoy a better talent level but not a higher price. Catch 22 nailed it; most folks aren't here for the hockey, they are here for the stuff. An increased price eliminates the cheap night out for families and college drinkers that the marketing program has attracted.
I have to believe Wildman may have been talking out his posterior! (or wishful thinking...) |
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cloneinator
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
597 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 11:47:56 AM
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| I haven't heard it and totally agree with CATCH and TJ... I would hate to see it happen. I've said it before...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
...And on the eighth day, GOD created the Cyclones! |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 12:46:00 PM
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Springfield has struggled financially and this might be the year when Bruce Landon and others involved with the ownership group entitled Springfield Pro Hockey, LLC, decide it's time to stop beating their heads with a hammer and sell the franchise.
The Panthers were interested in putting their prospects in Cincinnati at the Gardens after Anaheim left with the RailRaiders but they weren't in a position to stock a full roster so they entered into a dual arrangement with Buffalo in Rochester. Florida liked Cincinnati for the same reason Anaheim did: Delta.
The Panthers won't have to go into a dual affiliation. Whatever team Rochester ends up with leaves an opening somewhere else. So, if say for example, the Blue Jackets go into Rochester that would leave Springfield for Florida. Unless of course the Springfield franchise is sold and relocated to say ... Cincinnati. :)
If the AHL returned to Cincinnati you'd see more of the hardcore hockey fans that don't go to many, if any, Cyclones games back, but if ticket prices went up $2-$5, you'd lose some of the families and college crowd. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 2:10:13 PM
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The Cyclones are averaging 3928 through 33 home games. That same average would put them in the bottom 25% of the AHL. If the Cyclones can manage that same attendance in the AHL, it would probably be viable. The question is with the increase in ticket prices that would be associated with the AHL, would the organization be able to maintain that average?
As Donnie pointed out, the AHL might attract more "hardcore" hockey fans but would they be enough to offset the loss of families who might not come down as regularly at the higher prices as they do now? My guess is no. However, if the ownership model stays the same (the same group owns the team and the building), a ticket price of $15 might be obtainable. If that's the case the dip in attendance might not be that bad. The team would probably also have to push for a lot of weekend dates to push the "family 4 packs" and kids eat free nights.
The idea of Cincinnati joining the AHL is something that pops at least once per season. However, since they're already pushing season ticket renews at the same prices as previous seasons, I'm guessing that it is just a rumor.
If it were come to fruition, I would under no circumstances want to see an affiliation with Florida. Hell, I didn't want to see us affiliated with them at the ECHL level. Florida barely has an NHL team; one could argue the Panthers are an AHL team with a "ringer" or 2. Chuck has been doing a great job in Rochester given the fact that he's been coaching a mostly ECHL roster. The players that we've seen from the RCH/FLA side of things are high level ECHL players at best, hardly comparable to Ben Street, Nick Petersen, Mitch Fadden, etc(Adam Comrie and TJ Fast have potential but have a long way to go before they're truly AHL capable. Clackson and Hudson are ECHL players plain and simple). Sure, I'd love to have Chuck back in town, but why on earth would I want to pay more to see AHL hockey being played by high level ECHL players?
I would, however, love to see Springfield give up the ghost so that franchise could come in and bring the Blue Jackets with it. Scott Howson is a GM that has been growing the CBJ (small market team) the right way. He's building with young players via the draft and keeping them in juniors and the minors as long as he can before bringing them to the big club and possibly signing them long term. Unfortunately, the Blue Jackets will be affiliated with Springfield though the 2011-2012 season. That would indicate to me that the Falcons don't plan on closing up shop quite yet. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 3:21:13 PM
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Columbus' deal with Springfield is one year plus a club option. Scott Howson may not be back as GM next year. Ownership (and fans) expected the playoffs this year.
Last season, the team Florida put in Rochester had 44 wins, 91 points and a second-place finish in the North Division. But historically, going back to its first season developing players in the AHL in 1995-96, Florida has not had good teams in the AHL. However, the Blackhawks always had good teams in the AHL when Panthers GM Dale Tallon held the same post in Chicago. Tallon just had his first draft as Panthers GM last July. Give him two more drafts and the cupboard will no longer be bare in the Florida organization. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 3:33:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
If the AHL returned to Cincinnati you'd see more of the hardcore hockey fans that don't go to many, if any, Cyclones games back,
All 6 of them?
Yeah. That'd work.
I'd expect ticket prices to go up to at least $20, attendance to drop, and the team losing money and being gone in 3-5 years.
$20 is still a helluva deal for a professional hockey game, but you likely have run most of the "non-hockey people" out of the building at that point. Now you are looking at over $100 for a night at a game with a family of four.
And considering the team is living off of promotions and the media exposure of two championships to average less than 4000 people with ticket prices at $13, anything that would result in more expensive tickets is a BAD call.
Just say no.
Cincy is at best an ECHL city. Let's accept it and leave it alone before we have no team at all. Again.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
Edited by - Catch22 on 03/13/2011 3:35:50 PM |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 3:42:09 PM
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Just as a point of reference:
Cyclones single game lower bowl tickets - $13
Springfield Falcons single game lower bowl tickets - $23
Springfield upper bowl tickets - $17
I happen to think that if you think Cincinnati will support that, especially in this economy, you haven't been paying much attention.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 3:54:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
Columbus' deal with Springfield is one year plus a club option. Scott Howson may not be back as GM next year. Ownership (and fans) expected the playoffs this year.
Last season, the team Florida put in Rochester had 44 wins, 91 points and a second-place finish in the North Division. But historically, going back to its first season developing players in the AHL in 1995-96, Florida has not had good teams in the AHL. However, the Blackhawks always had good teams in the AHL when Panthers GM Dale Tallon held the same post in Chicago. Tallon just had his first draft as Panthers GM last July. Give him two more drafts and the cupboard will no longer be bare in the Florida organization.
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=546967
CBJ and Springfield extended back in December and I will be very surprised if Howson goes anywhere.The ownership and fans really wanted playoffs in 09, but Mason's lackluster play doomed them. The team was forced to rush Mason and now the Jackets are dealing with his growing pains rather than the minor league affiliate doing it. Howson's major downfall is that he's patient but when you look at what that did for the team this year how is it bad. The fans were calling for his head when he didn't make a trade during the December slump but in waiting he was able to unload Rusty Klesla and a career minor leaguer for Upshall and Lepsito. The worst things Howson has done are signing Mike Commodore to a rich long term deal and extending Jared Boll. The team is in much better shape than it was when he replaced MacLean.
As far as Florida goes, even if they are on the upswing I'm not sure the Cyclones could afford a ticket increase and mediocre play for 2 seasons while the Panthers build depth into the organization. My question is how many GM's has Florida had and have they been under the same ownership. If the answer is a bunch and yes, then I don't see how a new GM now is going to make a difference; seems a lack of over all depth in the system is something that has always plagued them and there's no reason to think that's going to change.
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 4:11:42 PM
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| Springfield's ownership doesn't own the arena, doesn't get all of the concession, parking and arena signage revenue. The less revenue streams you have, the higher your ticket prices have to be to make the nut. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 4:22:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
As far as Florida goes, even if they are on the upswing I'm not sure the Cyclones could afford a ticket increase and mediocre play for 2 seasons while the Panthers build depth into the organization. My question is how many GM's has Florida had and have they been under the same ownership. If the answer is a bunch and yes, then I don't see how a new GM now is going to make a difference; seems a lack of over all depth in the system is something that has always plagued them and there's no reason to think that's going to change.
Florida had ownership issues for several years which led to a revolving door with GMs. They had a good one in Rick Dudley but he lost a power struggle with Mike Keenan, and that set the franchise back. They're finally on the right track. There's a reason to be excited if you're a Panthers fan. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 5:22:27 PM
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Since you know everything Donnie, what is the average ticket price in the AHL? Which team has the cheapest avg. ticket prices?
If those numbers are more than $15, it WON'T WORK HERE.
I'll pay $20-$30 a game to watch AHL games from the lower bowl, but I'm a hockey fan and in a HUGE minority in this city.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 6:12:38 PM
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It doesn't matter what the average ticket price is in the AHL because every situation is different. Affiliation fees differ from team-to-team, travel costs, arena lease, available revenue streams, etc. If USBA owned an AHL team, they could keep ticket prices inline with what they are now for ECHL hockey. If an NHL team owned the AHL franchise, ticket prices would depend on what kind of lease they could work out. If someone besides the arena or NHL club owned the franchise, then they'd need to have ticket prices in the $20 - $35 range to make it work. And it wouldn't.
I wouldn't waste any time worrying about ticket prices for an AHL team at USBA until there is an AHL team at USBA. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
Edited by - Donnie Hockey on 03/13/2011 6:17:17 PM |
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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2011 : 6:39:09 PM
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One other huge reason the AHL wouldn't work... Neiderlander would have to purchase (or have someone purchase) an AHL franchise. (If one was even available) I can't remember what Rockford paid for the CMD franchise two or three years ago but I do remember the price was in the millions.
Then Neiderlander would have to get rid of their ECHL franchise which can't be worth anything given that three teams have folded (and returned their franchises for no gain)in the last few years.
The whole AHL idea seems like a loser from the get-go. So... i'm sure its being actively pursued given the history of Cincinnati hockey!
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