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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2011 : 4:44:54 PM
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quote:
And hey, if you cant beat the team you're playing on the score board... beat em lol.
Well, were certainly not beating anyone on the scoreboard, and that seems to be the fundemental problem. |
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fangers
(The Next Level!)
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 4:51:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Slapshot
Not saying its a good trade off but at least its there... He's an enforcer, something every hockey team in the league has and needs. He knows his role and is good at it. And hey, if you cant beat the team you're playing on the score board... beat em lol
I disagree that he's really an enforcer in the true sense of the word. Tough, albeit prone to cheap hits, - yes. Won't back down from anyone - yes. Fighter - willing but not too able. The only fear he imposes is from fear of the cheap shot, not as a fighter... |
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fangers
(The Next Level!)
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 6:27:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Catch22
That's understandable.
Just please don't be one of those people that uses a player you don't like as an excuse for everything that happens. Blame him when he takes a stupid 5 for intent to injure, he deserves it then.
But again, I didn't see any hate towards DelMonte for stick swinging or Lehman for kicking or for the 1000s of elbows McKenzie threw, so I'm not sure where the hate for this kid comes from.
Yes, he cracked a head open, but I swear to god if I'd been the ref I wouldn't have even called a penalty. That penalty was due to the shocking result, not the actual mechanics of the hit (which appears to have been totally legal).
I'm choosing to give the kid a chance until if/when he decides to get his Sgroi on. Until that point I'll cheer his legal hits and enjoy watching opposing defensemen play tentatively on the boards.
The minute he does something totally out of line I'll be the first one calling to get him out of here. I just haven't seen anything yet, either in his first games here or in his youtube past.
I actually think his biggest downside is his rep at this point. He'll draw some unfair calls on legal hits just because he is who he is. Some people think that already happened Saturday.
I see those situations as being very different. On one hand, you're talking about adding a player, who has a track record of dirty play/suspensions/etc., who arguably brings little to the team that it needs. The other cases all involve players already on the team, and I was disappointed in their actions, understand that appropriate disciplinary action is handed out, and if it starts to become a regular event then I'd want them gone. Regarding McKenzie, never liked him, as all who sat around me would know.
My opinion/perspective on liambas is based on two primary things, which most here wouldn't have:
1) I saw the OHL hit in person, 15 rows up in the corner where the hit took place. There was no doubt his intent, given how hard he skated in, didn't ease up when had chance, made no attempt to play the puck, and exploded up thru the kid's head - and he was a 16 yr old kid, in just his 7th OHL game, liambas was a 20 yr old over ager. The sound was sickening. When all the chisled OHL vets & scouts sitting around me said it was the worst/dirtiest hit they've ever seen, I take their opinion over anyone who posts on here. Sorry.
2) I'm the parent of a player who has played highest level competitive hockey in the US over the past several years. Over those years I've seen lots of kids have to face reality and make the decision that they've gone as far as they can and it's time to get on with the rest of their life - it's tough when it's your decision. Even tougher when it's an injury that causes it. Any player who reaches the higher competitive levels understands that injuries are a part of the game, but when it happens due to a cheap/dirty/intent to injure play its really tragic. I know first hand how hard these kids work, the sacrifices they've made alng the way, and to see a loose canon like liambas be given chance after chance with his track record simply appalls me.
I've said all I'm going to on this subject. I would absolutely love to be wrong about his losing it again and see that no one gets injured as a result of his play. |
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Slapshot
(The Next Level!)
USA
271 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 8:24:14 PM
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| I know everyone has an opinion and nobody is going to change another persons but DBC brought up Liambas' stats and figuring out he has one goal for every 67 PIMs... Ben Olson... 43 games, 1 goal, 153 PIMs. Thats 1 goal for every 153 penalty minutes this season and if you add it up its....196 games played,2 goals, 24 assists for 26 points and 670 PIMS. 1 goal for every 335 minutes |
old time hockey bar the door, clear the track, ITS ALL OUT WAR! |
Edited by - Slapshot on 03/08/2011 8:31:31 PM |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 10:09:27 PM
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I'd LOVE to always get the player we "need." That'd be awesome!
Right now we need a 40 goal scoring sniper that is defensively responsible. Know where we can find one?
No?
Apparently neither does Skalde.
It's March and it's the ECHL. Sometimes that means breathing and owns skates = contract.
Reality can be such a bitch sometimes.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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Apocalypse Sticks
(The Next Level!)
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 10:13:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Slapshot
I know everyone has an opinion and nobody is going to change another persons but DBC brought up Liambas' stats and figuring out he has one goal for every 67 PIMs... Ben Olson... 43 games, 1 goal, 153 PIMs. Thats 1 goal for every 153 penalty minutes this season and if you add it up its....196 games played,2 goals, 24 assists for 26 points and 670 PIMS. 1 goal for every 335 minutes
Olson plays defense, Liambas is a forward.
Liambas is 5'9", ~200lbs.
Olson is 6'4, ~215lbs.
You don't bring in either player to light the lamp, but I know which player I'd want to protect those that do.
Olson's not an option, so I'll side with the shorter-leash for Liambas crowd. |
"What daring! What outrageousness! What insolence! What arrogance!... I salute you. " |
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fangers
(The Next Level!)
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 11:02:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Catch22
I'd LOVE to always get the player we "need." That'd be awesome!
Right now we need a 40 goal scoring sniper that is defensively responsible. Know where we can find one?
No?
Apparently neither does Skalde.
It's March and it's the ECHL. Sometimes that means breathing and owns skates = contract.
Reality can be such a bitch sometimes.
Reading, a first place team, managed to sign 4 college kids in the past week. Weber/Stork had lots of NCAA contacts but word on the street (among advisors) is that skalde either doesn't have the contacts or isn't interested, so Cincinnati not a top place they are thinking of placing anyone. I personally can name plenty of college kids who would be better potential offensively. Liambas was only signed because skalde is buddy of his, he already gave him one chance, so you all can quit fooling yourself thinking otherwise.
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Edited by - fangers on 03/08/2011 11:05:17 PM |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 11:18:35 PM
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And just in case you didn't read it the other 10 times I wrote it...
Maybe this is just the best Skalde can do.
Weber excelled at surviving March and we got used to that.
Well... Guess what.
Reality. Bitch.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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Obie
(Rookie)
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 07:45:44 AM
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I guess we can hope that when he does go off, it's against Lloyd. :P
(I'm kidding) |
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eagleoneoh
(Rookie)
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 12:38:49 PM
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| I think i see a lot of good arguments here but at the end of the day it's still minor league hockey. We have been very fortunate the last few years. We have a new coach it takes time for a new coach to get a team playing well. I never thought this year team would win the kelly cup. to much change. if the new coach is comfortable in trusting this kid to do the job of enforcer that all i need. Sometime the choice come from above remember the jobs there hired for is to develop players not to win championships. |
Lets GO Cyclones |
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new_cyclones_fan
(Rookie)
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 1:33:30 PM
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I don't know if I can agree with you there.
Because "...it's still minor league hockey..." and there is so much roster turnover that if "... it takes time for a new coach to get a team playing well ...", I don't see that coach lasting too long. At this level, you need to do the best with what you've got because good or bad, you aren't going to have any given player for long. Every coach/team/organization in the ECHL faces the same challenges, so coaching is the one area that can make or break the team. Time is a luxury you just don't have in this league and an ECHL coaches success is dictated by how well they can adjust and overcome.
Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that Ray Harris, Kristen Ropp and Nederlander Entertainment would agree that their head coach is "... hired ... to develop players not to win championships." I'm thinking they would want to win, regardless of player development, so that they can sell tickets, merchandise, and concessions. NHL/AHL player development is a mechanism to obtain talent (albeit for a relatively short time) to hopefully achieve the singular primary goal of making money.
Then again, since I'm new to the hockey world, I could just be full of crap. |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 2:01:42 PM
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I don't think anyone has a problem with having an enforcer and Olsen played that role very well. We need an enforcer-all teams do. That is a long time roll in hockey. There is a big difference though between an enforcer who hits hard but legally and who will respond by fighting when a teammate is "mistreated" and even start a fight to get his team going, and a goon who thinks his role is to hurt people with cheap shots and over zealous checks. I don't even mind a designated enforcer who doesn't play much except when he is put out on the ice with the understanding he will start a fight. They usually will go head to head with the other teams enforcers-not make a cheap hit. They pride themselves on not making cheap hits and staying within the 'code" in hockey for enforcers
The people on here-me included- who have a problem with Liambas do so not with him personally but because of his SELF INFLICTED history and reputation of being a goon who plays outside the code. His two fights with us so far aren't going to scare opponents too much as him as an enforcer, but his long proven reputation as a goon will-- and he already showed that side of him in the boarding call last week. None of the enforcers we have had recently played as a goon. They hit hard but not to injure, and were there to fight if necessary. We don't need a Matt Cooke here. These kids in the league play for next to nothing for the love the game and a hope for the next level and the last thing I want to see is one of them have their career ended or put on the shelf for a long period of time by someone like Liambas. Hate goons when we play against them and can't now be a hypocrite and be glad that he is on our team. |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 2:25:00 PM
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Devil's advocate...
Look up Chara's hit in the Habs game last night.
That is FAR worse than anything Liambas has done and reasonably could have killed the guy. And yes, it's damned clear Chara did it on purpose.
So... What should happen with Chara? Suspended? Banned for life?
I have a feeling NOTHING will happen because he is Chara.
Reality=Bitch.
I try my best to keep in mind that we have a AA team that depends on TWO affiliations to survive in a city with a past full of multiple failed hockey franchises. I also try my best to understand that those TWO affiliations often make things beyond the control of the local coaching and management.
I also try to keep in mind that in order to survive the team needs butts in seats. And (like it or not) two things keep butts in seats at hockey games.
1. Winning.
2. Hard hits and fights.
As true hockey fans these are the prices we pay in return for $5 parking and $12 seats in the 3rd row.
I hate "It is what it is," but in this case... It is what it is.
If Chara can get away with nearly beheading someone on national TV in the NHL, you can damned well expect similar play in the ECHL.
Love it or leave it, it's a gladiator sport with MANY gladiator fans in the seats.
Reality. It owns your ass.
PS - The Chara hit will get HUGE media attention for a couple of days, and in the US those things are what get the huge media attention. Which is exactly why it isn't going to change. |
Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 2:47:30 PM
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| Will Chara get suspended--yes. Does he deserve it--yes--it was a "substantial injury" to a player during a penalty ( interference). Boston papers say a suspension is justified. Did he run the guy into the pole on purpose--read the Montreal papers and listened to NHL channel on Sirius and even all of them say not on purpose. Their complaint is he should have known where the post was but I haven't seen any papers from Montreal or Boston say he did it on purpose or with intent to injure. Does Chara have a reputation and history as a goon?--no-former Norris Award winner and multiple all-star. Is he an enforcer. He will come to the aide of a teammate while on the ice but he is not used as an enforcer by Boston as he is too valuable to be sitting for five minutes. Sean Thornton plays that roleand has as many goals this year (8) as Liambas has in his distinguished career in junior, college, and CHL play. Neither Chara or Thornton are one dimensional players |
Edited by - dbc on 03/09/2011 2:51:51 PM |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 3:04:10 PM
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Are you finished?
If you are, here is a freeze frame that clearly shows Chara planting the players head in the pole with his forearm...
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/592/254939843.jpg
If anything should get anyone banned from the game it is THIS. What you are basically saying is that you are more concerned with what a guy like Liambas MIGHT do than you are with what Chara DID do.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
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